What makes a civilization?

Can the society of any agricultural settlement (such as Çatal Hüyük p.43 in textbook) before about 5000 BCE be described as a “civilization?”?

 Why or why not?

Here was our definition of civilization.

Should contain all or most of the following characteristics:

  • Cities.
  • The state: a central governing authority in which a relatively small group of people exercised, to some extent, command over the economic and political life of everyone else.
  • Job specializations (Part of the population have jobs or professions other than growing food or herding animals.)
  • Institutions for collecting, storing, and distributing surplus products, staffed by officials and managers.
  • Social class hierarchy – Typically, a small privileged elite occupied the top rank, the vast majority of farmers, herders, and laborers the bottom.
  • Institutionalized religion.
  • Monumental public architecture.
  • Writing.
  • Creation and accumulation of knowledge in mathematics, engineering, astronomy, and other technical and scientific fields.

Also see Google Classroom for the notes written by Alex during our class discussion.

40 thoughts on “What makes a civilization?

  1. ÇATAL HÜYÜK
    This short story is a great example of a great example a community for the following reasons. Firstly because in ÇATAL HÜYÜK’s village/community everybody has a different job’s and they made enough food for himself and others, such as crabapples grapes wheat barley and berries. This is similar to the river valleys we took notes on (p51) This strengthens my point, because the book calls those communities meaning civilization, because to have a community the people have to be civil.

    Another Example of ÇATAL HÜYÜK’s community being civil/ a civilization for example, everyone has their own home and being able to share a workplace and community. This shows that his comminy is very civilized otherwise is community would be attacking each other and would not have different jobs and jobs.
    Civilization = the stage of human social development and organization that is considered most advanced.(Google)

    1. I disagree with you. I think that the Catal Huyuk settlement isn’t a civilization because it lacks many of the most important traits of a civilization. For example, they didn’t mention there being any social classes or specialized jobs in the Catal Huyuk community.
      I like how you included the definition of civilization, but I think farming settlements like Catal Huyuk were nowhere near advanced enough to be a civilization. The Catal Huyuk settlement lacks the organization a civilization would have. These settlements have no social classes, no record keeping, no collection of social surplus, no specialized jobs, and no organized way of settling disputes was talked about in the textbook.

  2. Çatal Hüyük

    There are several reasons why Çatal Hüyük is a civilization. Firstly, in Çatal Hüyük there were building such a shrines and statues that were public. One of the characteristics of a civilization is that they were able to have public places that were not for dwelling. That consists of statues or shrines.

    Another reason is that they had farmers. For example, one of the characteristics of a civilization is that there are job specialization’s such as farming.

    in conclusion I believe that,Çatal Hüyük is a civilization because it had public places not intended for dwelling, and job specializations.

    1. I agree and disagree with your argument that Çatal Hüyük is a civilization. I agree with your statement but not fully, because Çatal Hüyük did have some things such as public places not for dwelling that were part of a civilization. I completely disagree, with your opinion because during my research I found that a civilization needs near all these things in it: The existence of cities, the advanced division labour based on specialized occupational groups, social classes, including a ruling class, an administration that can collect social surplus public buildings not designed as dwellings and record kept in written form. Çatal Hüyük only has two of these things which is the advanced division labour based on specialized occupational groups and public dwellings.Therefore, by the textbook information it is not a civilization. The reasons, I have stated is why I strongly disagree with your opinion.

  3. I believe that the society of an agricultural settlement before about 5000 bce can be described in some aspects as a civilization because Çatal Hüyük fits some of the requirements. Firstly, cities. Çatal Hüyük is 13 hectares of land and has as many as 6000 people. The size and population together is as large as cities. Secondly, job specialization. Çatal Hüyük would have had farmers, and tool smiths as well as probably artists and more. Thirdly, institutions of collecting, storing, distributing surplus produces. Çatal Hüyük would have had a system similar because of the job specialization. Fourth, Institutionalized religion. Çatal Hüyük would have had institutionalized religion because of their reliefs that honoured their fertility goddess, so if they had a fertility goddess they would have had a religion of some-sort. Fifth, Monumental public architecture. Çatal Hüyük would have had monumental public architecture because if they had statues in their house they would have had public architecture.
    While in Çatal Hüyük there is no information in the textbook to say whether they had any of the following requirements: the state, social class hierarchy, creation and accumulation of knowledge, and writing. This is why I believe that the society of an agricultural settlement before about 5000 bce can be described in some aspects as a civilization because Çatal Hüyük.

    1. Laura, I definitely agree with the first point because yes, çatal hüyük is as big as some cities. 6,000 people is large enough to be a civilization. I do disagree with your fifth point although. I do not believe that çatal hüyük had any form of public architecture because, it was never stated in the textbook that there was any form of public architecture.

  4. I believe that any agricultural settlement before 5000 BCE such as, Çatal Hüyük can be considered a civilization because they have most of the factors a civilization has. A civilization is a large organization of people who are considered to be advanced. A civilization also has job specialization and a high level of culture. Agriculture settlements including Çatal Hüyük, had all of these factors.

    Some of the factors that make a civilization are a large population, job specialization, and a high level of culture. Primarily, a civilization has to have a large population to be considered a civilization. For example, the Çatal Hüyük settlement had a population of 6000 people, therefore it must be considered a civilization. With a larger population, the citizens of the agriculture settlement would have the opportunity to take part in more effective collective learning. Secondly, a civilization needs job specialization. For job specialization to occur, people must have a reliable food source on which they can rely on. Since agriculture is a very predictable food source, not everyone in the civilization must take part in producing food in an agricultural settlement. This allowed people to obtain different occupations such as, potters and crafts makers. Lastly, a civilization must have a high level of culture to be identified as a civilization. Culture consists of religion, cuisine, arts, and much more. For example, the Çatal Hüyük settlement had paintings and statues to represent their religion. There were paintings and statues of animals such as, leopards and rams which represented life. Furthermore, the people of Çatal Hüyük also cooked. These people had kitchens with dining areas and cooking appliances, so that they could take part in cuisine which expanded their culture. In conclusion, I believe that any agricultural settlement can be considered a civilization.

    1. Sorry Leo but Ill have to disagree with you. I believe the Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization. You are not wrong with the points you have presented but however you have not considered many other points. Your first point you touched on was large population. I wont admit your wrong that the Çatal Hüyük did have a large population but however have you considered this? For a civilization you need the existence of cities! It said the Çatal Hüyük was a town and only one town. Even with a large population, it is not considered a civilization without cities!

      The second point you touched on was job specialization. Now the Çatal Hüyük does have job specialization there are many other things that make the Çatal Hüyük not a civilization. The Çatal Hüyük does not have any kind of social classes. The Çatal Hüyük does not have a lower class, middle, not even a ruling class. Therefore the Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization.

      The last point you touched on was culture. Even if the Çatal Hüyük does have a large sense of culture, I dont think having a good sense of culture is an essential part of a civilization. Some things that makes a civilization that the Çatal Hüyük does not have is communal buildings. Even importantly the Çatal Hüyük does not have any kind of writing, thats why the Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization

  5. Çatal Hüyük is an agricultural settlement that took place just before about 5000 BCE and according to what I have looked at, I believe that Çatal Hüyük can be described as a “civilization” for many reasons. Firstly, because the people of this settlement specialized in jobs. Now, a civilization needs those things, they need to have people specialized in other things than growing food or herding animals. In this civilization however, people specialized in things, for example, making things. These people that made things were called “Craftspeople”. These people produced tools of obsidian, wove baskets and flax cloth, made pottery, and crafted copper ornaments. Also, Çatal Hüyük had archaeologists. These archaeologists discovered objects around the Middle East. According to what they found, they thought that the people of this settlement traded with other people in other settlements. This could be a bad thing, but it also could be a good thing at the same time. These people also farmed, and did things like that, but you want more than just farming. Job specializations are important and are needed in a civilization because you want people to do other things and be good at other things than (like I stated before) just growing food and herding animals. This is one reason on why I think Çatal Hüyük can be described as a civilization.

    Another reason why I believe that Çatal Hüyük is a civilization because it has statues to represent things that have meaning in everyone’s life, living in that community. Civilizations must have public buildings not designed as dwellings but for communal use. In Çatal Hüyük, life was represented with paintings, statues and reliefs that honoured their fertility goddess. Life was also represented with statues and paintings of animals: leopards, rams and especially bulls which were also symbols of fertility. Death was represented in paintings of huge vultures pecking at human skeletons. All of these things make of a civilization. You need to have these statues to represent your leader, or what you believe in, in this case, they believed in life and death, and the believed strongly of it so they put of paintings and statues to symbolize it. In conclusion, Çatal Hüyük is a civilization because of the job specializations/ division of labour, and they also represent what they believe in by putting up statues and paintings. This is why Çatal Hüyük can be described as a civilization.

    1. I think that your research is very in depth on your specific subjects and i think that you presented them in a very appealing way.

      I strongly disagree with your opinion. This is because there are many more things that define whether something is a civilization or not. You addressed only two of the many defining factors. One that you did not address is the fact that they had no form of “central governing agency…” also, there was no evidence of any form of an administration that collected social surplus “taxes”. These alone simply neutralize the argument, but with the addition that there was no form of military or people to enforce the “absent” ruling class I think that Catal Huyuk was not a civilization!

  6. Catal Huyuk

    Catal Huyuk was a civilization for many reasons. In order to be considered a civilizations, a prospective civilization must meet all or most of a list of standards. I believe Catal Huyuk should be considered a civilization as it meets many of the requirements.

    Firstly, Catal Huyuk met the requirement of having religion: but not as we know it today. Religion was a thing omnipresent in everyone’s life. So far, 88 walls have been excavated that have tributes to what is believed to have been their “Great Goddess.” This goddess was associated “with the three phases of the moon, waxing, full, and waning.” She was also associated with the three sections of ages, childhood, adulthood, and old age.

    Another requirement Catal Huyuk met was to do with job specialization. In this society, they had many objects that showed how varied skills were. Not everyone was a farmer. Farmers grew food for both themselves and other members of the society to eat, in exchange for other goods such as arrowheads to strongly weaved fabric. Job specialization is a central part of a civilization.

    In conclusion, Catal Huyuk was a civilization because they meet most of the requirements: they had both religion and job specialization.

    1. I do not agree with this comment. I disagree with this comment because Çatal Hüyük lacked something detrimental to civilizations: a government. Çatal Hüyük did not appear to have any leaders, nor did they appear to have any public buildings. This suggests that the people of Çatal Hüyük merely decided equally on any matter, which could be hard to do as it would require gathering thousands of people together. It should also be noted that the people of Çatal Hüyük, whilst living the agrarian lifestyle, the main source of food was still hunted meat and various foodstuffs. Now then, onto religion. The people of Çatal Hüyük certainly had a religion, that much is certain from the various figurines found in grain bins. However, I must ask, do not all societies have some kind of religion? If you think of the creation stories of many Aboriginal peoples, some of those stories are made by those Aboriginal groups who roamed around. They still had a religion. If the city of Çatal Hüyük was a civilization, then where are the public buildings? The archeologists found none when excavating the ruins. Where were the leaders? If they had any, it is unlikely that they would use a leader’s home as a meeting place, as it could be small and cramped. I thank you for reading my lengthy response to your comment.

  7. I thought that Catal huyuk was a civilization at first but then i realized that it wasn’t Cole Ferrari

    There are many reasons for my believing that Catal Huyuk is a civilization. This is firstly because of it’s qualification as a farming community. There were advanced divisions of labor, farming being one and crafting being the other. They also built houses protect them from the “elements”. They also had rooms to store things for themselves.
    How i realized they were not a civilization. I learned that Catal Huyuk had no system of government, and/or no system of a ruling class and a labor class! Also, there was no monumental public architecture, or record keeping by official writing of any sort. There were no administrations which collected social surplus or taxes. Also, there was no evidence of a military of any sort.
    In the end, the reasons for them not being a civilization far outweighed the reasons for them being a civilization.

    1. I believed it to be a civilization, but now that I read your paragraph, I am having second thoughts. I only went by what the textbook said, so I would actually agree with you, but I think that Catal Huyuk actually did have labor classes. They were a farming community, and they had markets were people would sell things that they made. Also, they had engineers, and construction workers in order to build their “city”.

  8. I feel that the community around Catal Huyuk is not a Civilization because there is not many Job specializations in the community, I feel like that idea is starting to develop in the community and is probably going to happen soon. I feel like there is also no governing body for this community which happens to be one of the biggest key elements to a civilization. They do have a very well made community but do not have these certain things.

    1. Jack, I agree that the Çatal Hüyük community did not have every element of a civilization has such as, a governing body and a large variety of jobs, but this community also had many aspects of a civilization. For example, the Çatal Hüyük had a large population of 6000 people. It was also stated in the textbook that an important aspect of people’s lives in the Çatal Hüyük community was their spiritual beliefs. This point refers to culture, which is also another aspect of a civilization. I think that there are more aspects of a civilization in Çatal Hüyük than the number of aspects of a civilization that Çatal Hüyük doesn’t have.

  9. I believe, because of my research that Çatal hüyük is a civilization. In a civilization you are required to have a lot of things and in Çatal hüyük they have most of them. This civilization has many cities and most of them are urban. To become a civilization you must have cities. Çatal hüyük has their job specialization. Some examples of jobs are farmers, priests and clerks.

    The Çatal hüyük had their own church where they would practice their religion after performing labor. Another structure that they had was a public cemetery where they would bury the dead and have a funeral. This ties into the religion because they still put a small wooden cross in the ground symbolising god. During the day each person would have their own division of labor. Some people are farmers and the others herded animals.

    1. I agree with you 100%. I also think that Çatal Hüyük is a civilization for many reasons. Your point about Job specializations was a good point because a civilization needs people that are specialized in different things, so people can do more things, like Çatal Hüyük. They did have farmers, along with craftspeople who made and wove things together. Çatal Hüyük also had archaeologists that discovered different things around the Middle East.

      I also liked your point about the cities. You cannot have a civilization without the existence of cities in that certain place, but Çatal Hüyük has these cities. Also, I have a question for you. You said, “This civilization has many cities and most of them are urban” and the word “urban” means “city”, so why are most of them cities, and not all of them? All of them are cities. That’s what makes it a civilization, by having these cities exist.

  10. I think that agricultural settlements that took place before 5000 BCE shouldn’t be considered civilizations. Their population is too small and they lack many important traits of a civilization. For example, in the Catal Huyuk settlement, they didn’t mention anything in the textbook about there being any social classes, or any specialized jobs for people who didn’t farm. Also, in the small part of the textbook talking about the Catal Huyuk settlement, there was no mention of written record keeping, public buildings designed for communal purposes,or any social surplus collecting. Also, civilizations are usually cities but it says in the textbook that most of these farming communities were just towns. These settlements are merely small agrarian communities, not civilizations.

    1. I personally agree that the Çatal Hüyük were not a civilization. I agree with you on this because the Çatal Hüyük had a lack of three components that make up a civilization. The first topic that I agree with you on is lack of job specialization. I agree with you on this because the information on the Çatal Hüyük that I was given says that the Çatal Hüyük were farmers mostly. However the Çatal Hüyük did have other jobs, it’s just that the jobs were not specialized.

      The second point I agree with is that the Çatal Hüyük had a lack of social classes. I agree with this because no information in the information I was given there was no mention of social classes.

      A point that you missed is that, in the information, there was no mention of a governing force for the Çatal Hüyük. A governing force is a crucial part of a civilization. A governing force could be described as a king, queen, emperor, or any other position of power.

      A reason that you had that I did not have is that you mentioned a lack of record keeping. I think that is actually a very important part of a civilization. Without record keeping, no new jobs such as scribes, or judges would have opened up.

      Another point that you had that I did not have is a lack of public buildings. Public buildings are an important part of a civilization because without these buildings, lords and other governing forms to incite inspiration or fear into there peoples.

      These are the reasons I agree with you, a point that you missed, and a few points I missed but still agree with.

  11. Çatal Hüyük was not a civilization because it does not appear to have any public buildings or rulers. Civilizations all have rulers and public buildings. Çatal Hüyük did not have these two key things. Admittedly, the people of Çatal Hüyük did have storage facilities and crops and farmers. However, the people of this city mainly hunted for their food. In addition, it appears that their religion was somewhat primitive, with them putting figurines inside their food storage facilities.

    1. I agree with the statement that Çatal Hüyük was missing two key aspects of a civilization. Did you consider adding anything on the creation and accumulation of knowledge, cities, Monumental public architecture as well as writing. I think that these aspects of a civilization are important enough to add to your statement. Also did you consider that Çatal Hüyük had Job Specializations because of there were craftspeople as well as farmers.

  12. Çatal Hüyük

    I believe that the Çatal Hüyük cannot be described as a civilization. I believe this because I see no evidence of a governing force in the information I was given. In the limited text of the textbook, it never mentions a government to control the people. This means that they might actually have one but it has no mention in the book. Therefore the Çatal Hüyük are missing one of the necessities of a civilization.

    Another reason why I think that the Çatal Hüyük are not a civilization is because they lack job specialization. Job specialization is when one person or a group of people specialize in one particular job. The textbook also said people made cloth and pottery, but the textbook never said that the jobs became specialized.

    A third reason is that in the text nothing was mentioned about a social hierarchy. A social hierarchy is a necessity of a civilization. A social hierarchy would be those who were above others to do work. If the Çatal Hüyük had no social hierarchy the Çatal Hüyük could not have been a civilization.

    To recap, a lack of governing force, a lack of job specialization, and a lack of a social hierarchy are the reasons I think that the Çatal Hüyük are not a civilization. Thank you for reading.

    1. I respect your opinion saying that Çatal hüyük is not a civilization because it has no governing force, job specialization and no social hierarchy. All these points are valid if you are only reading from the textbook, but for taking the time to process that information I give you credit. But since you are only reading from the textbook it would be hard to actually know if that is all the information. The internet has lots of information on Çatal hüyük and I believe it is a civilization. Why would you not dig deeper into the internet to find more information on Çatal hüyük? After doing the research on the internet does your opinion change? In my own paragraph I discussed some of your points so I will bring them up know.
      When reading the textbook you stated that there was no governing force, job specialization and social hierarchy.
      By searching on the internet I discovered that Çatal hüyük does indeed have a governing force. In Çatal hüyük’s cities they had some building where the government discussed problems and situations. The governing force divided the people into different groups to do their individual labor like farming and herding. Back to your point I like your opinion but I would like to state that from research that point is invalid.
      Again from research on the internet there was job specialization. In the villages they had building where people would buy good and the people who worked there had jobs. Some jobs were clerks, priests etc. Back to your point I like your opinion but I would like to state that from research that point is invalid.
      Finally there was a leader that ran in bloodline, from research and I found out that they got the idea from the Egyptians. So for a fact I know there is a leader in the blood line that ruled the land and helped the government. Back to your point I like your opinion but I would like to state that from research that point is invalid.

      Overall I liked your points and thought they were very thoughtful and i respect them all. But for the reasons presented the points in my opinion and research have fallen.

      1. Isaac, I’m curious about your sources, I would love to see some of them. Almost all information derived solely from the archaeological record is up for debate, and I would like to look at what evidence was presented for government building where issues were discussed. I would also like to see evidence for hereditary leadership. Was this talking about a neolithic Çatal hüyük? This site has many periods of occupancy.

    2. Revised version!!!!!

      I respect your opinion saying that Çatal hüyük is not a civilization because it has no governing force, job specialization and no social hierarchy. All these points are valid if you are only reading from the textbook, but for taking the time to process that information I give you credit. But since you are only reading from the textbook it would be hard to actually know if that is all the information. The internet has lots of information on Çatal hüyük and I believe it is a civilization. Why would you not dig deeper into the internet to find more information on Çatal hüyük? After doing the research on the internet does your opinion change? In my own paragraph I discussed some of your points so I will bring them up know.
      When reading the textbook you stated that there was no governing force, job specialization and social hierarchy.
      By searching on the internet I discovered that Çatal hüyük does indeed have a governing force. In Çatal hüyük’s cities they had some building where the government discussed problems and situations. The governing force divided the people into different groups to do their individual labor like farming and herding. Back to your point I like your opinion but I would like to state that from research that point is invalid.
      Again from research on the internet there was job specialization. In the villages they had building where people would buy good and the people who worked there had jobs. Some jobs were craftspeople and archaeologists etc. Back to your point I like your opinion but I would like to state that from research that point is invalid.
      Your last point frustrates me because you are right and I can not find any evidence stating that this is true. So good job
      Overall I liked your points and thought they were very thoughtful and i respect them all.

      1. “The Internet” is a big source Isaac. Could you please list the specific websites you used to gather your information?

        Thank you.

  13. Çatal Hüyük was a small settlement that was made slightly before 5000 BCE.The main characteristics that make up a civilization are, institutionalized religion, advanced agriculture, cities, different social classes, division of labour based on peoples skills, Monumental public architecture, controlled distribution of land, the payment of taxes and the settlement of disputes, as well as, established rules and laws. Çatal Hüyük does seem to have most of these characteristics, in fact, they were a farming community. Although, the textbook does not speak of organization, and controlled distribution of, and these are vital parts of a “Civilization”. Çatal Hüyük, for it’s time period, is what I would consider a “Civilization”, because they had advanced farming, institutionalized religion, cities, division of labour, and different social classes. For these reasons I would consider it to be a “Civilization”.

    1. Hi ben, you make some very good points that I have not seen when reading the article myself. I would like to ask the question that if you think that a civilization need all of the characteristics or just a few, as one that the story did not mention and one that you did not mention is a governing body for the civilization which is among one of the biggest thing that you need for it. It can have tons of small little things like that but the big thing here is if it can be classified as a civilization even though it does not have more of the bigger topics. This would be more supporting my argument over this that saying it does not have that, that it is not a civilization. I will say that you bring some very good points to the table though.

  14. Çatal Hüyük

    The society of any agricultural settlement such as, Çatal Hüyük can not be described as a civilization. Firstly, Çatal Hüyük doesn’t have near all the characteristics of a civilization. For example, I have found no evidence in the textbook story and in my research that they had a ruling upper class or that they collecting social surplus (taxes.) A ruling upper class and having an administration that can collect social surplus, are a requirement in civilization. Çatal Hüyük didn’t have these things in the society, therefore it isn’t a civilization. The reader, may make the argument that Çatal Hüyük had some parts of a civilization such as, the advanced division of labor. This was the only thing that Çatal Hüyük had that makes up a civilization, though you could make the argument that Çatal Hüyük was a “city.”

    A civilization requires, the existence of cities, the advanced division labour based on specialized occupational groups, social classes, including a ruling class, an administration that can collect social surplus public buildings not designed as dwellings and record kept in written form. Çatal Hüyük only has 2/6 of these characteristics. A society needs most or all of the above characteristics therefore Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization. In conclusion, Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization because it doesn’t meet the requirements of a civilization.

    1. Hi Jack this write up about Çatal Hüyük is great, it includes alot of great examples and stuff, but dont you agree that having laws, taxes and homes and a currrency for money are also parts of a civilization? I personaly belive that Çatal Hüyük’s community is a civilization, because of the information and examples I have stated. Another example that would help your case is that his community did not have a very strong idea of the value of their currency. I hope this helped you.
      From: Josh

      1. I agree, that social surplus such as, taxes are required in a civilization and I state that. Though, I found no evidence that there was taxes in Çatal Hüyük. Therefore, that is another knock against Çatal Hüyük being a civilization.

  15. The society known as the Çatal hüyük is not a Civilization! Firstly it is not a Civilization because it does not have any kind of social classes. The Çatal hüyük does not have a lower class, middle class, not even a ruling class. This does not make them a civilization because having social classes are on of the requirements for a civilization

    Secondly all buildings in the Çatal hüyük society are living purposes only. No buildings exist for communal services. Some examples of these building would be temples, which the Çatal hüyük has none. This makes the Çatal hüyük not a civilization because buildings for communal purposes are necessary for a civilization.

    Lastly the Çatal hüyük doesn’t have any form of writing. In a civilization writing is use to keep records of events. The Çatal hüyük doesnt have any form of writing to keep record of events happening in its society. Therefore the Çatal hüyük is not a civilizations.

    For the reasons of not having any social classes, no buildings with communal purposes, and no form of writing, the society known as the Çatal hüyük is not a civilization.

    1. I agree with your statement which that the Catal Huyuk farming community cannot be describes as a civilization. I agree with your reasons but my reasons are slightly different. One major aspect that makes up a civilization that is not present in the Catal Huyuk farming community is law. There is no evidence that the Catal Huyuk community had law or any type of rules. A reason for this maybe that the people didn’t leave their homes very much. Other than them leaving to trade their goods, they wouldn’t really have a reason to leave their home. In the textbook there no information about law under the catal huyuk heading. For the following reasons, I agree that the Catal Huyuk community can not be described as a civilization.

  16. I believe that çatal hüyük is not a civilization. I believe this because it lacks key features of what a real civilization has. For example, çatal hüyük didn’t have any rules or laws like a real civilization would have. Another example of why çatal hüyük is not a civilization is because they don’t have any public buildings such as temples or courts.

    For these two examples that I have stated this is why I believe that çatal hüyük is not a civilization. A real civilization would have these key characteristics.

    1. I agree with you when you say that Çatal Hüyük did not have any laws and in that way it is not a civilization. However, in the textbook it states that there are statues and shrines which would be considered as a public place not assigned for dwelling (which would fall into the same category as public buildings). Therefore I disagree with your statement on how Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization. Have you considered that in Çatal Hüyük they have religion, public buildings/areas, farming skills, and specific jobs such as farmers and craftspeople. For example, there were shrines and statues, Çatal Hüyük was able to produce crops and fruit, and there were craftspeople to create tools of obsidian.

  17. There are plenty of aspects of civilizations that are missing in the catal huyuk community. For example there were no social class or social hierarchy. There were some people that did different things in order to survive. For instance some people learned how to produce food like crab apples, berries, grapes, nuts etc. Others produced tools of obsidian. Craftspeople wove baskets and flax cloth the also made pottery and crafted copper ornaments. Even though these people did different things, and traded. There were no higher class or lower class. It is almost like everyone was treated equally.

    Another aspects of civilization that is missing the the catal huyk community is there was no law. People traveled from roof to roof and traded their goods. Other wise people people didn’t leave their homes very much. There is no evidence that the fatal huyuk community had a law, or court. There fore the catal huyuk community can not be describes as a civilization.

    1. Your points are very well thought out and stated well. I agree with your points that Catal Huyuk did not have a social hierarchy or much of a law. Although my viewpoint is opposing, your points are valid.

      Another point you might add for your view point is that Catal Huyuk did not have a written language that we know of. This would be a strong point in your favour as all “official” civilizations today have a written language.

      A critique I would like to make is that you should check over your punctuation and grammar over a bit. Although your spelling is in general very good, there were some grammatical mistakes. “There were no higher class… can not be describes…”

      Your example at the start was succinct and informative. I liked how you used an aspect of civilizations that Catal Huyuk did have, (job specialization) and used that to show how it didn’t have another aspect.

      Make sure to state your idea (that Catal Huyuk is not a civilization) at the start, so the reader knows exactly what you are trying to say. You somewhat hinted at this at the start, in that there are aspects of a civilization missing from the Catal Huyuk community; but it’s not incredibly clear.

      I have one question regarding this, in that how do you know that they rarely left their houses? I would appreciate a source if possible.

      In conclusion, your points are valid and thought out well, but they would be enhanced if you cleaned up your grammar and signposted a bit more.

  18. I agree with you when you say that Çatal Hüyük did not have any laws and in that way it is not a civilization. However, in the textbook it states that there are statues and shrines which would be considered as a public place not assigned for dwelling (which would fall into the same category as public buildings). Therefore I disagree with your statement on how Çatal Hüyük is not a civilization. Have you considered that in Çatal Hüyük they have religion, public buildings/areas, farming skills, and specific jobs such as farmers and craftspeople. For example, there were shrines and statues, Çatal Hüyük was able to produce crops and fruit, and there were craftspeople to create tools of obsidian.

  19. I would personally hesitate to call Çatal höyük a civilization.
    These are my reasons for this belief:
    1. Though it does contain shrines, and evidence of household based religion. It does not have and monumental architecture, created for specific religious purposes. This type of architecture is usually designed to control populations and divide them by social status. Stonehenge in the UK is a good example of this architecture, where religious specialists and individuals of high status are the only ones who have a full view of the ceremonies and those of lower status have a restricted view created by the monument itself. (notably Stonehenge also does this acoustically with its concave stones)
    2. There is almost no evidence of social status in their mortuary (burial) practices, and children are not buried with high honors. This is an indicator that leadership was achieved not hereditary. The burials are also contained within households showing the importance of family and ancestors but are not publicly displayed as would be typical of societies that have rigid social structures and role specializations.
    3. Lack of written records.(We can’t access their oral traditions so we don’t know whether they were accumulating knowledge)
    4. Lack of technological specialization beyond part time, gender, or seasonal specialization. This is typical of societies with technologies that are known to everyone and can be completed by everyone.
    5. Little evidence of warfare beyond defense of the community. No soldiers specialists or military leaders (usually also very evident in burials)

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